A Baptist Knocking At My Door, Part 3

After not hearing from Matthew for a few days, I decided to write him again to see if he was still interested in having this discussion with me. Finally after nearly a week, I heard from him again. He first asked about the Protestant Reformation. He claims that Martin Luther and Jean Calvin both brought their "churches" back to the way the Church was originally set up by the apostles. He also asked me why do Catholics pray to the saints. I am not sure why he chose such vast differnt topics.

After thinking about it for a short time, I replied and below is what I said to him --

Dear Stephen,

A discussion on the Protestant Reformation is a vast topic. We can discuss this later. Plus, it was not in your original email to me and I want to focus on the topics you gave to me there. I will not jump from one topic to another.

Let's start on the saints first -- You are asking why shouldn't we pray to just God the Father or to God the Son Jesus?

Catholics do pray to God directly! Last night I prayed for a friend of mine who is having surgery this week. I went directly to Christ! However, it does not mean that it is not a good thing to ask others to pray for us as well. Catholics believe that there are holy men and women in heaven already that can pray for us, just as if I asked you to pray for me. Do you ask others to pray for you? I know I do.

The saints are our brothers and sisters in the faith that have come before us and are now in the presence of the Holy Trinity. The saints intercede for us when we ask them to do so. Catholics do not omit God the Father from their prayers at all. They simply just ask others (the saints) to pray to God the Father since they are already in his presence in heaven. If we look at Revelation 5:8 - here we see the saints actively interceding for us. As John writes, the incense the saints offer up to God are our prayers. Prayers are not physical and cannot be offered up physically to God. The saints as they intercede for us offer up our prayers to God mentally.

Now does this violate the mediatorship of Christ? Not at all! Christ is the unique mediator between God and man because he is both human and divine. He is the bridge between the two since he is the God-man (John 1:14). The role as mediator is not compromised at all by the fact that others intercede for us. Christ is the mediator of the New Covenant which binds God and man (Hebrews 9:15, 12:24) just as Moses was the mediator of the Old Covenant (Greek - mesitas). Galatians 3:19-20 shows this. The saints in heaven do not violate this mediatorship because what Paul says in 1 Timothy 2:1-4. The intercessory prayers of Christians, which includes the saints in heaven, does not violate Christ's role as mediator, but is "good and pleasing to God." Paul in other places asks for people to pray for him. Please see Romans 15:30-32, Epheisians 6:18-20, Colossions 4:3, 1 Thessolonians 5:25, and 2 Thessolonians 3:1. It is important to note, that Jesus himself required us to pray for others and not those who just asked us to do so (Matthew 5:44).

In conclusion, since the saints are already in heaven and are not distracted with the day to day dealings we face in life, they can help us by interceding for us. They are there to support us in our trials and sufferings since they themselves at one point were here on earth dealing with the same daily activities we face. The saints, since they are in the presence of God, have a greater devotion and confidence to God. Jesus himself supplied for one person based on another person's faith (see Matthew 8:13, 15:28, 17:15-18, Mark 9:17-29, and Luke 8:49-55). Just as the saints intercede for us from heaven, so too must we pray for one another here on earth.

You are in my prayers. In the Peace of Christ, Tom

Matthew responded by saying that he now has a better understanding of this topic. However, this was not good enough for me. During these emails that will go back and forth between us, I am really looking to draw him out to fully understand where he is coming from in this thoughts. I, playing "devils advocate", asked to some more questions about the saints - i.e. statues, relics, religous pictures. He responded by saying -

I believe there is much to be learned from the people God has used for his purposes on this earth, however I don't need to communicate with them for wisdom on how to live even if they have been in my shoes. Jesus has walked this earth and experienced everything they have without sinning so that he is able to help fill that role Heb 4:15-18. In fact he says that if you lack wisdom, ask the Lord (James 1:5-7) not dead saints who have gone to be with him. Those saints are worshipping God and not interceding for him. What could they have to offer that is more valuable than communion with God who came as a man and lived a full life on earth engaging and surrounded by every human experience and temptation. I think much can be learned from the early church fathers and I read about St. Augustine and other influential saints throughout the history of Christianity. However, Jesus never instructs us to pray to them. He said pray like this... Our Father which art in heaven... Never did he say.. sometimes pray to saints in heaven. A concern about the statues of saints would be that they arise to the level of idols. In the old testament the people of Israel made asherah poles and worshipped statues of idols to Baal. God detested this. My question is..what's the difference.

I will answer these questions this week. Please pray for Matthew's conversion.

A Baptist Knocking At My Door - To be continued...